Dispensational Theology & The Rapture

Thought this was a good quick summary of dispensationalism.   I found this at – http://giannina.wordpress.com/2007/09/14/dispensational-theology-the-rapture

DISPENSATIONAL THEOLOGY & THE RAPTURE – September 14th, 2007 

In the 1800’s a heresy was popularized by a man named John Darby.  It was then further popularized by another man named Cyrus R. Scofield, through what is known as the Scofield Study Bible. The theology promoted in the study notes of this bible is called dispensational theology, and many of it’s doctrines are firmly entrenched as “bible truth” in the minds of believers. An unbiblical distinction between the church and Israel is at the core of this teaching.

Dispensational theology has broken the second coming of the Lord into two parts. They say the Lord will come secretly for the church (the rapture) and then again at a later time to pour out his wrath. One of the dangers of this teaching is that people will think that there is a second chance to receive salvation after the coming of the Lord. Satan has a purpose for every false doctrine, and that purpose is the destruction of souls. I used to believe this teaching myself until I learned the source and the reasoning behind it. It made me search the scriptures for the truth.

Dispensational theology is an intricate web of deceit with various teachings. What follows is just a small portion of its false doctrines. Dispensationalism teaches that Jesus came to set up an earthly kingdom, but the Jews rejected his offer. Because of this, God’s original plan was interrupted and an alternative plan (plan B) was put into effect. Plan B was unforseen by God and would not have gone into effect if the Jews had accepted Jesus’ original offer of an earthly kingdom. Plan B, they say, is the cross and the church. Since the church is an interruption in God’s original plan, it will be taken out in a secret rapture. Then God will continue with what he had planned to do all along.

Clearly this is heresy and the exact opposite of what is taught in the bible. The bible teaches that the cross was foreordained by God and that the expectation of an earthly kingdom was a serious error of the Jews, causing them to “miss” their Messiah. I don’t know many Christians that would say they believe the “plan B” portion of dispensational teaching, but many have ingested one of the fruits of this heresy. That fruit is believing that there will be a secret rapture. This teaching has been further promoted by the fictional Left Behind series.

We know from scripture that one day Christ will return. He came once, the first time, and now believers look forward to his second coming. That is when the dead in Christ shall rise, and that is when living believers will be taken up, or raptured, to be with the Lord. Then the wrath of God will come upon the earth. One event.  No one will be “left behind” for another chance to be saved.  It will all be over.  That’s the simple, scriptural truth of it all.

“Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” 2 Timothy 4:2-4

A fable is a tale, fiction, a myth.

As we know, the Kingdom will come with the coming of the King, Jesus and God will not abandon His original plan for this earth, but rather restore it.

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31 responses to this post.

  1. Posted by JohnO on September 15, 2007 at 9:31 am

    Its funny because one of Schweitzer’s big points is that the cross was plan B of Jesus – because he couldn’t usher in the Kingdom. I.e. because he was a failed prophet he went to die to accomplish something else instead.

    Reply

  2. John and/or Victor,

    What do you believe the purpose of the millennial kingdom is? In other words, why do you believe Jesus sets up the 1000 year reign and then turns over the kingdom to His Father? Is it solely to put down all rule and authority under His feet? If so, why take a 1000 years to do so?

    Just curious what your take is on that.

    Reply

  3. Posted by JohnO on September 15, 2007 at 9:43 am

    Well, it really isn’t my plan 😛 But if I had to say, it would take a while to fix this earth – it is pretty messed up.

    Reply

  4. That’s pretty much what I thought too – 1,000 years of “clean-up”. I’m not so sure now – I think there’s a bigger reason.

    Read the three studies I’m linking when you have some time and I think you’ll see what I mean.

    Steve

    http://www.holyspiritguidedministry.com/March_28_2004_Warnings_and_teachings.pdf

    http://www.holyspiritguidedministry.com/Does_any_of_the_Old_Apply_expanded_12_04_06.pdf

    http://www.holyspiritguidedministry.com/Who_Is_The_Remnant_In_Christ.pdf

    Reply

  5. One of the worst things to grow up with is dispensationalist theology. Southern Baptist have embraced it completely. In their love of Darby’s lunacy, they created a theology that is rooted in fear. Sunday after Sunday one preacher or another would scream from the pulpit that unless we followed the prescribed steps to salvation, hell was sure to follow. And of course, hell was graphically described. Following this preaching was a once a year romp through Revelation. The 1970’s were a real joy with Lindsey’s “Late, Great Planet Earth” making the rounds. (funny how all those “predictions” have been forgotten) I finally grew up and out of this truly destructive theology, but I guess it still pushes some buttons, or I wouldn’t be typing this. You see, as one well known speaker commented, hell is a place created by people who believe they will not be going there. Darby and of course Scofield just have it a “Hollywood” twist. Now if you really want to challenge your theology, start reading the studies and writing of researchers such as Thomas Sheehan, now at Stanford Univ.

    Reply

  6. It is interesting that you speak of dispensational theology as rooted in fear – as I grew up under what I would describe as “ultra-dispensationalism” it was almost the opposite of fear – but that we, unlike Israel did not need to keep the faith unto the end, and simply a one time confession of sorts of Jesus as Lord would save you, and all hell couldn’t stop that from happening.

    I guess perhaps this line of thinking wasn’t specifically classified as dispensational theology, but was rooted in the belief that not all of the NT (especially the words of Jesus, go figure) were for the post-pentecost Christian.

    So it is interesting to hear your perspective on this Brian. Could you elaborate a bit more when you have time?

    Reply

  7. Posted by Bruce Rockwell on September 17, 2007 at 8:06 pm

    Speaking of researchers, historian Dave MacPherson has found far more of the earliest “rapture” documents while researching in British libraries than anyone else. A couple of his web pieces relaying his findings include “Revisers of Pretrib Rapture History,” “Famous Rapture Watchers,” and “Pretrib Rapture Diehards.” His full-length book on all this is “The Rapture Plot” (Armageddon Books). Good reading, anyone? Bruce

    Reply

  8. Steve,

    I took a look at those PDF’s. And I do see that possibility, that the thousand years is an opportunity for people to repent and believe and fall in line under the rule of Jesus.

    I do have something of a paradox that I don’t know how to reconcile. During the thousand years the saints will rule over mortals left on the earth. Yet, most descriptions of the day of the LORD or the second coming conclude with the cleansing of sin and total judgment, which makes me wonder how sinful mortals have passed onto the other side of the day of the LORD. There is just a tension there I don’t have an answer to.

    Reply

  9. John,

    I have also struggled with this. Perhaps the answer is in the last part of the 2nd PDF I linked.

    In it he writes,

    “Meeting with other Christians, they have stated that after Christ comes there will be those who Christ has changed and those who Christ has raised along with those of flesh and blood but not immortal. This statement of flesh and blood not being immortal comes from Old Covenant prophecies trying to be applied in the New Covenant age.

    (Remember he stated previously that the Lord revealed this to him – ‘“Old covenant prophecies were spoken to Israel based on the law of Moses that they may understand and repent of their sins and be given hope of a better time when the LORD will rule the earth. They had no understanding that the old covenant would be set aside and a new covenant be established by My sending My only begotten Son to die for the sins of the world. You under the new covenant cannot apply these descriptions on the how and where of the coming. Just as the laws no longer apply, these prophecies were until My Son came.”)

    One prime example is Isaiah 65:19-25. The Lord showed me by his word that the part about flesh and blood bodies being in the resurrection is false. In Revelation 19:17-21 it states all flesh of men will be eaten by the vultures and the remnant will be slain with the sword. In Matthew Jesus states that we shall be as the angels of God.

    From the word of God Paul writes that “we shall all be changed” and “we who are living will be transformed”. Are these not the Christians that
    are still alive on earth when Christ comes for His Church? Are these not Christians the ones that shall be caught up together with them in the clouds?

    Does not Jesus Christ destroy all of those not of Him when He returns? Then who is left on earth of flesh and blood? By the word of God from the
    above scriptures, there can be no flesh and blood bodies left on earth to live in the resurrection with Christ for 1000 years. If the Old Covenant prophecies from Isaiah, Micah or other Old Covenant prophets are applied, we have a conflict with the word of God and that should not be.

    If we apply the teachings of Jesus Christ from Matthew 11:12-13 12 “And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. 13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied
    until John. (KJV), Luke 16:16 and Matthew 5:17, we have no conflict with the word of God. The word of God is its own witness. There will be no
    flesh and blood bodies on the earth after Christ returns for his Church. Only those who were alive and changed in the twinkling of an eye and the dead in Christ who will be raised first, are the ones to be with Christ. These are the ones of the first resurrection that the second death has no power. Revelation 20:6.

    Those of the first resurrection are the ones that some will be deceived at the end of the thousand years when Satan is loosened. Another question I
    had for the Lord, if all with Christ on earth for one thousand years have resurrected bodies, how can they be deceived? The Lord gave me this revelation—It is by God’s love, grace and mercy that many from all the denominational churches through out the generations since Christ ascended
    have received salvation to be with Jesus Christ. This is the scripture the Lord brought to my mind. Matthew 19:25-26 25 The disciples were astounded. “Then who in the world can be saved?” they asked. 26 Jesus looked at them intently and said, “Humanly speaking, it is impossible. But
    with God everything is possible.” (NLT)

    Those in the resurrection with Christ will continue to be taught the word of God and be given time to come into the full knowledge of the word of God during the one thousand years because they disobeyed the word of God on earth. God keeps his word that is written that all who confess Christ will
    be saved and will be with Christ.

    In these latter days of these last days when God changes things to bring the Church of Jesus Christ to shine in the world, God’s grace and mercy is ending. In judgment only those who have obeyed
    the commands of Christ in the word of God will be with Christ while all others confessing Christ by disobeying the word of God will be lost. This is the part of the revelation that grieves my heart. Those with Christ in the thousand years that did not obey the word of God on earth, some will not obey and come into the knowledge of the word of God as they are taught during the thousand years. They will still be stiffed necked and rebellious gathering themselves together according to their denomination they belonged to on earth. These are the ones Satan will deceive for they still have never given their hearts to Christ by disobeying the word of God.

    Without obedience to the commands of Christ they can never enter into the gates of the New Jerusalem. See Revelation 22:14.”

    End of excerpt.

    My thoughts – It would appear that God’s mercy is in operation in the millenial kingdom as the vast majority of Christians will not be “overcomers” in this life. They will not overcome their flesh or the devil in this world, therefore as Paul writes, they escape, but as though through the fire, all their works being burned up. They will be in the 1ooo year reign because of God’s mercy. God keeps His promise that all who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved. But salvation and eternal salvation are apparently two different things.

    Those who confess Christ in this life but disobey His commandments have 1000 years of instruction and a time of testing at the end. Only those who overcome and pass the tests can enter the gates of the New Jerusalem. Only those who evercome are permitted to eat the fruit of the Tree of Life. Without eating that fruit, we have no eternal life. One way or the other, in this life or the 1000 years we must overcome. This is a sober reminder to all of us. Our primary battle is this life is against our own flesh, which must be crucified, that he might live in us.

    I may have more on this later, as I’ve e-mailed him with a few questions of my own.

    Reply

  10. Posted by GBENGA ABRAHAM on September 20, 2007 at 1:48 pm

    PLEASE I WANT YOU TO SEND A REPLY TO MY e-mail

    Reply

  11. SteveP,

    I cannot agree with your conclusion. The tension I mentioned is easier to deal with than the non-evidence for the position that un-faithful people are resurrected to enjoy 1000 years in instruction and plenty. There just isn’t any Scripture.

    I do have to take the time and go back and make sure I’m not reading this problem into the Scripture based on teaching I’ve had though.

    Furthermore, God has never shown himself to be slack concerning any promises – why should he dismiss promises because of a new covenant? Neither covenant seems to have anything to do with eternal inheritance of the land. The first was about staying in the land in this life, and the second is about being able to keep the law of God which the first did not help us with.

    Reply

  12. John,

    I think I understand your position. However, the millenial kingdom is not 1000 years of enjoyment in instruction and plenty. It is a “day of judgment” to instruct those that confessed Christ as Lord but were disobedient to His commands, that they might be overcomers and receive all God’s blessings that He promised.

    Only those who overcome receive eternal salvation and eternal life by being given the right to the tree of life. The tree of life is not available in the 1000 years. It is in the New Jerusalem within the gates of that city. The city does not come down until the end of the 1000 years, so the tree of life that Jesus promises to those who overcome is not available until the end.

    By God’s revelation in this day He has revealed that less than 1% of professing Christians are overcomers in this life. What happens to the other 99% Are they lost forever? No – by God’s mercy they confessed Christ as Lord are are given time by God to receive the promise, but it will be a difficult time as many will suffer under God’s discipline during the 1000 years. That is why there are still some who rebel against God when Satan is released at the end. We who have been given knowledge and understanding of these things should rejoice and be thankful, but fear God and obey His commandments. I urge all of us to strive to be one of the few – one of the 1% – that we might be judged worthy of a reward – to reign with Jesus in the 1000 years, and not come under God’s discipline.

    Regarding your 2nd point – God’s promises will not be dismissed. What God is saying is that if any prophecy given in the OT requires us to be put back under the law of the Old Covenant, the prophecy and promises are valid, but not the part of the prophecy regarding the keeping of feasts, sacrifices, or need for a temple. These are done away with in Christ. “The law and the prophets were until John”. Many are confused thinking we will be doing animal sacrifices and observing the feast days after Jesus returns. Why would God put us back under the law? The answer is that He will not.

    Reply

  13. Posted by JohnO on September 25, 2007 at 5:53 pm

    SteveP,

    It is a “day of judgment” to instruct those that confessed Christ as Lord but were disobedient to His commands, that they might be overcomers and receive all God’s blessings that He promised.

    This goes against all the Gospel proclaimations, and most of the parables of Jesus. He never mentions a “second-chance”. The slaves of the master that are beating the other slaves are going to be judged and killed at the master’s return.

    Reply

  14. John,

    It’s not a second chance for God to give His sons and daughters an opportunity to receive instruction in the truth and come into a fuller knowledge of His Word that they might enter into the New Jerusalem. God loves us and grieves for His children. For 2000 years the devil has deceived and captured most Christians because the church system perpetuates man’s theology, not God’s ways. God will give those Christians an opportunity to overcome in the millenial kingdom.

    God never intended His church to operate the way it does – the current church system. As we are in the latter days of the last days, God is calling out a remnant that He will fashion into His Church. This will cause much tension just as it did when Jesus confronted the religious leaders in His day. Everything will be fulfilled as Jesus prophesied. The fact that might we even think our particular church has a corner on the truth shows we are carnal, as Christ is not divided.

    The Lord spoke—“This day I want you to understand and see as I see in this area. There are two and I repeat two distinct bodies in the area of Christian religion. # 1 you have the word church. This is the denominational church names and structure setup and administrated by man and his incorrect theology. Man builds buildings and attaches his name to that building called a church. I claim not that building and refer to it as female. It has become a whore loving and imitating the pleasures of the world. Her light is as the light of the world. She has not my light, love or truth. I love her not, for she is not of me, but of the traditions and doctrines of man. I have rejected her and her structure.

    # 2 you have the word church. These are the living stones who have confessed me as their Lord and Savior. This is my body I love and grieve for. Because they are my body, they are male as I am male. They lack knowledge and wisdom because they have listened to the whoring church loving the world and they have not taken the time to search my Word for the truth.

    Listen to my Words this day. Both are in sin. Both will be judged. The 1st must die so the 2nd can live. Out of judgments will come my church according to my Word. I will be the head. The leaders I have appointed will be my shepherds
    and they will listen to the Spirit and obey. They will mature my flock, those who have repented in judgments, to make my army ready. My church will be on one foundation with no gaps or divisions. On my church will I pour out my Spirit for revival. My will, will be done. Know these things. Repent and prepare now and suffer not the judgments, but be a light of truth in judgments. All things will be done and set in order before I come. Prepare to overcome as I overcame.”

    Amen.

    Reply

  15. Posted by JohnO on September 26, 2007 at 1:37 pm

    Steve, can you please define, simply, what is a Christian?

    Reply

  16. John,

    A Christian is a person whose confession of faith parallels the Bible, ie., he or she believes in Jesus as the Christ, believes in his death and resurrection as an atonement for our sin, and who endeavors to obey His commandments out of gratitude and love, being changed day by day into a new man as he dies to self. A better question might be how would God have us to behave, as baby Christians who need milk, or as mature Christians who eat the strong meat and feed His sheep? God loves all Christians but wants us to come into maturity. We can only come into maturity if we put aside the old wineskins and drink the new wine that God pours out in the Spirit.

    What is a mature Christian?

    “A mature Christian is one who seeks me and is never content with the level of relationship he has with me. A mature Christian is willing to change each day and drink of my new wine that I pour out.
    A mature Christian wants to hear the truth. A mature Christian wants to listen and apply what he hears (the truth) to serve me and glorify my Kingdom. A mature Christian seeks my face and not my hand. A mature Christian reads and knows my Word and applies the truth of my Word to produce fruit.

    A mature Christian has moved beyond finding direction only by my Word, but has received the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and seeks me in the Spirit for I am a Spirit. A mature Christian hears what the Spirit is saying and obeys. A mature Christian seeks me first in all things and draws near to me in his secret place daily. A mature Christian humbles himself before me so I can lift him up. A mature Christian does not compromise my Word. A mature Christian confronts sin and calls sin what it is. A mature Christian hates sin as I hate sin and is holy as I am holy. A mature Christian has love and compassion as I have love and compassion.

    A mature Christian knows my voice and walks the narrow path for his salvation. A mature Christian lives in my blessings with love, peace and joy. A mature Christian meditates upon my knowledge day and night. A mature Christian always has praises and thanks upon his lips for me. A mature Christian is in unity with me by being one in the Spirit with me. A mature Christian squelches not the Holy Spirit, but is yielded to the Holy Spirit in that his thoughts, his ways and his plans are the same as my thoughts, my ways and my plans. A mature Christian is never mature until the day of salvation, for the path is narrow to salvation and few find it. A mature Christian reaches maturity by walking the path daily looking not to the right or left, is willing to change, and drinks the new wine of the Spirit by putting on the coat of Jesus Christ. A mature Christian lives in the world and makes use of the worldly things for the glory of my Kingdom, but the world does not live in him, for I live in him.

    A mature Christian cannot be one who is comfortable if he is not seeking the Kingdom daily, for Christians not moving gather much moss and begin to stink like stagnant water. A mature Christian continues to move and flow like moving
    water and is a sweet fragrance to me, for he bathes in the living waters daily and gathers no moss. A mature Christian will be the remnant for the church I am preparing and will have before I come. As my Kingdom is dynamic and always
    expanding, so is a mature Christian.”

    Reply

  17. Steve, I do not see Jesus speaking on this at all. Perhaps I am overlooking something in the gospels where he deals with this. From Jesus’ perspective you are either a sheep or a goat, a wheat or tare, a house built on a rock or sand, etc. You are suggesting an entirely new catagory that is not communicated in the gospels at all, or at least not consistently and clearly.

    Those in the millenial kingdom will not be eating from the tree of life yet (I guess, in light of the verse in the end of Revelation), but they will be resurrected immortals..

    Reply

  18. Victor,

    There are many scriptures that John and I have gone back and forth over but I daresay the real issue is that neither of you accept the prophecies given to Bro.John Kropf as being from God or the Lord Jesus Christ. You’re disregarding them in your replies which leads me to believe you’re ignoring them in disbelief.

    The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy and is just as much the Word of God and truth as the written Word. Certainly we are to test the spirits but nothing in those prophecies contradicts the gospels – although it may add additional info or clarify certain passages.

    Jesus said His sheep know His voice and follow Him. You learn to discern His voice not only from the written Word, but from being in the spirit with Him. That’s why every believer needs the baptism of the Holy Spirit as evidenced by speaking in tongues. Jesus said we can’t enter the kingdom unless we’re born of water and the spirit. To enter in that context is to be an overcomer, not that speaking in tongues automatically means you overcome – it doesn’t. But without it we lack the ability to pray in the spirit and worship in the spirit, which are essential to our overcoming.

    Go back and look at the prophecies I quoted. You have to decide. Is that the Lord speaking or not? I accept the prophecy as authentic and being from the Lord because I recognize His voice. It’s authentic prophecy. Notice also that He calls the churches whores. There are no exceptions – He has made that clear elsewhere. The current ‘system’ is a harlot. As we close out these last days, He is calling out and ordering His church under His headship. The church He is building will be a bunch of nobodies that have no name in the denominations because they’re outside the system. Those in the system will cling to old wineskins and the new wine, the best wine that Jesus saved for last can’t be poured into them.

    I’d suggest the following anointed study if you’re interested in testing what I’ve just said.

    http://meatindueseason.org/newbold/or/harlot/harlottoc.html

    Reply

  19. Steve, the verses that you have listed (at least in this post) have not sufficently presented this position. The Isaiah passage that you did list does not communicate the position that you and Mr. Kropf have written on. So are you asking me to disregard the lack of Biblical support and trust this change in what would be my doctrine and practice based on what Mr. Kropf is speaking while it is not confirmed at all by the written Scripture? This is a challenging situation don’t you think if Mr. Kropf is speaking the truth on this matter because so few are aware of his prophecy?

    Reply

  20. Victor,

    I think we’re majoring on minors at this point. If we reign with Christ – we reign. If we don’t – we don’t. Only those who overcome will reign and ultimately only overcomers receive eternal life and eternal salvation at the end of the 1000 years (see Rev 2:7; 3:12; 21:7; 21:27; 22:14). Our salvation now is conditional on obedience and our walk now will determine how Jesus finds us when He returns. Many will be ashamed at His coming (1 John 2:28). Many will enter the 1000 year reign but have no reward and will not reign in it (1 Cor. 3:15). Many will weep and gnash their teeth when they are cast into outer darkness because they didn’t keep their lamps filled and their wedding garments clean (they are in but they don’t reign).

    How do we overcome? By working out our own salvation daily with fear and trembling, in obedience to the commandments of Christ and the elementary principles of Hebrews 6: 1&2.

    These are:

    1) Be born again by confession of Christ as Lord.
    2) Be born of water for the remission of sins and symbolizing our burial with Him (Romans 6:3&4)
    3) Be born of the spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues, worshipping God in spirit and truth.
    4) Put off the old man and put on the new man in Christ by daily washing in the Word.
    5) Daily make time for God in our secret prayer closets.
    6) Daily abide in Christ by observing communion and partaking of the bread and wine (John 6:56)

    If we do these things and walk in the spirit, not fulfilling the lusts of the flesh, then we will receive a reward and an abundant entrance and welcome into the Kingdom. If we don’t do them, then chances are we will work out our salvation our own way and fail the tests. There’s no set “law” regarding this, as we all have freedom in Christ. However, the Lord has graciously revealed these things and emphasized them that we might do them and be found in Him when he returns.

    Are we doing these things? Do we believe the baptism in the spirit is for all and is a separate baptism that Paul taught? Are all being baptized in water following the commandments of Christ? These should be the questions we are asking.

    Steve

    Reply

  21. Posted by JohnO on September 27, 2007 at 9:57 am

    Steve,

    We can only come into maturity if we put aside the old wineskins and drink the new wine that God pours out in the Spirit.

    I disagree. I don’t think this is maturity. I think this is the seriousness of the Christian call. I don’t think “carnal christians” (if there ever was such a thing) will get a second chance. That is the gospel call of Jesus. No second chances – now is your chance. Therein the prophecy contradicts the Scriptures, which is why I don’t believe it.

    Reply

  22. Steve, thanks for your thoughts. Perhaps we can discuss these things on a different thread (as we have in the past). In the meantime, would you mind taking time to lay out a good solid Scriptural presentation of your millenial second chance/higher salvation view?

    Reply

  23. John, you bring a good point. With the view of dispensationalism as well as this prophet’s position on the end, shouldn’t we have to line up what is said with Scripture? Steve, I feel as if you are saying that these words can be added to the Scripture as truth from the Lord and hold the same weight. Shouldn’t the “written law” be higher than the “oral traditions?”

    Reply

  24. Victor,

    I think the written word is higher than oral tradition, but I also believe in the word of prophecy, which is also the Word of God. The problem is when the word of prophecy appears to contradict what we believe the written Word says.

    Remember, the letter kills, but the spirit gives life. The Pharisees had the letter, but they killed the one they were looking for and which the prophets foretold. Are we really hearing the written Word if we’re not allowing the Holy Spirit to lead us? This gets back to the steps to overcoming I listed above. All of these steps are in the written Word, but the Lord has in this time graciously re-affirmed them and emphasized that unless we do them, we will not be overcomers. All of them. Water baptism by which we obey Christ’s commands and our old man is buried with him. Baptism of the spirit has been mentioned over and over and over again in the prophecies I’ve read from Brother John. The Lord speaks through the spirit to us and if we are in the flesh, we can’t hear him. This is why I told you that “we” weren’t ready for the Lord’s return.

    Only 1% of professing Christians will be overcomers. We knew it was “few” but the “few” has been defined by the Lord in this day and time – less than 1%. That ratio applies to every assembly unless they are doing the steps to salvation and overcoming. We can change the ratio in our church, but we must change obeying the Word of God today to be ready for the living Word tomorrow.

    Once again the Lord speaks to this –

    “Seek Me first in all things and listen to and obey the Spirit and not man. Become the disciples I need. My will in heaven will be on earth. My Kingdom will be established on earth. Who will reign with Me? Those who obey My Word, walk in the Spirit and obey the Spirit and those who have been killed and will be killed for My names sake.

    Who will live in My Kingdom? Those who accepted
    My promise, but obeyed not My Word or walked in the Spirit or obeyed the Spirit. They will be in My Kingdom because of My mercy and not My grace.”

    “I reveal this today for nothing will be hidden any longer. The ones living in My Kingdom by my mercy will be tested at the end by Satan. For only those who truly serve Me will enter into My Father’s house and in His presence, the new or
    heavenly Jerusalem. Remember the old heaven and the old earth will pass away.

    As the old created will be gone as I move on; the old things in your life of wrong thinking, traditions, doctrines and sin must be removed from your life if you want to move on and serve Me. I am changing things. Will you change and become the new man I need?”

    “Listen to the prophets I am releasing. They will speak My truths without compromise. Those who listen will receive a prophet’s reward.”

    “Repent now before I bring this nation down and suffer not. In judgments your life may be lost. If you did not fear Me seeking and working out your
    salvation with fear and trembling, at death where will your soul be, heaven or hell?”

    “Those who are ready and have entered into My Spiritual Kingdom now will reign with me in My physical Kingdom that will be setup on My return. I come. I tarry not.”

    Amen.

    We can choose to accept or reject that prophecy. If we’ve already made up our mind that it can’t be true, because we don’t believe that upon death our soul goes to heaven or hell, then we reject the Word of the Lord because it doesn’t say what we think His written Word says. But if we aren’t doing the elementary principles of Christ moving on to perfection, we’re already disobeying Him and our understanding is limited by our flesh.

    Reply

  25. Posted by JohnO on September 28, 2007 at 10:29 pm

    Steve,

    “Who will live in My Kingdom? Those who accepted
    My promise, but obeyed not My Word or walked in the Spirit or obeyed the Spirit. They will be in My Kingdom because of My mercy and not My grace.” – contradicts those who are not the 1% and get to live in the Kingdom anyhow, those who get a second chance. Remember the parable of the servants. The servants not doing the master’s will are cast into outer darkness, they don’t get a lecture, or a whipping and instruction.

    Reply

  26. John,

    Does being cast into outer darkness of necessity mean they are cast into the lake of fire? Or does it mean they lose their reward and are under God’s discipline in the Millenial Kingdom? I don’t think you can make that determination from that one passage. I don’t believe there is darkness in the lake of fire, but there is darkness if we are excluded from the presence of the Lord. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth in the lake of fire, but also when some are cast into outer darkness and realize they have lost their inheritance and rewards in the kingdom and are under God’s discipline for the 1000 years.

    The phrase “weeping and gnashing of teeth” is used 6 times in the gospel of Matthew. Matthew 13:42 concerns the tares, the false believers, who will be cast into the furnace of fire. Matthew 13:50 concerns the corrupt Gentiles who are also thrown into the furnace of fire. Both groups will weep and gnash their teeth.

    Matthew 8:12 addresses another group – the sons of the kingdom – who are cast into outer darkness. I believe these are the ones who are saved by God’s mercy and under his discipline for 1000 years. They weep and gnash their teeth in sorrow at what they might have attained had they been faithful and earned the reward of the inheritance. Remember Paul’s warning that some will not inherit the kingdom? These are they who are dis-inherited but who receive the promise of being in the kingdom, subject to it for 1000 years.

    Matthew 22:13 are the believers who had no wedding garment. Matthew 24: 51 is about the evil servant and Matthew 25:30, the slothful servant.

    The false believers, the tares, and the evil gentiles will be cast into the lake of fire where there will be weping and gnashing of teeth. The defeated believers, sons of the Kingdom who are not overcomers, are those w/o the wedding garment in Ch 22, and the unfaithful servants in Chs 24 and 25. These are cast into outer darkness – excluded if you will from reigning with the Lord – excluded from His presence and the wedding banquet. They will weep and gnash their teeth in sorrow but will be given the opportunity to overcome in the millenial kingdom. Many will refuse and rebel when Satan is released at the end of the 1000 years.

    Reply

  27. Steve, don’t you think that at the resurrection of the faithful at the return of Christ those who are raised shall be raised incorruptible? Made immortal, never to die again?

    Reply

  28. Victor,

    I believe the faithful in Christ are raised either to immortality or incorruptability, depending on whther they were alive (raised to immortality) or dead (raised to incorruptability). I also believe that Paul’s analogy to different glories of the sun, moon, and stars applies to the resurrection of the dead, as I believe there will be different glories to our bodies based on the parable of the sower – 30, 60, and 100 fold glories.

    But when Christ returns the Bible also teaches there will be some that ashamed, some that receive no reward, and some that were beaten with many stripes, because they actually knew the will of God but did not do it. They did not overcome in this life.

    I believe that what we do in this life will determine what we do in the millenial kingdom. I believe that if we don’t overcome in this life, we will be in the Kingdom but will not reign. Are we then immortal? Do we have a right to the tree of life if we don’t overcome? I thank God for His mercy that many will be in the Kingdom and given a chance to overcome under His personal authority while Satan is bound for 1000 years. But I believe that unless we truly know the Lord now we will not reign in the Kingdom. I believe salvation is a free gift that many of us have been blessed with – but overcoming is not a gift, it is a reward that God gives to a select few. I am striving to be one – I trust you are too.

    As I look at the prophecies and go back and review the Bible, I see now where many times Paul urges us to overcome, and states that there will be a reward. Clearly he is not talking about salvation, for he insists it is not of works. There is a reward promised to those who overcome. It takes discipline to overcome. It was said of Jesus that he set his face as flint – so will we if we wish to follow Him.

    I’m walking this journey just like you brother. I’m learning as I go not to depend on my own strength, but to surrender and allow God to work through me. The older we get, the more we should be submitted to God and asking Him for wisdom.

    Consider these words from the Father-

    “Can you not see, My son, how the carnal mind has devised his own plan with all its traditions and labeled it church? For generations men thought this was of Me and for Me, but it is not so. This is the harlot, the woman who sits on many waters, who pretends allegiance to Me, but she is widowed. She is not My bride. Her deception is great. She has attained for herself the riches of this world. She has lavished herself with fine buildings and calls them temples and cathedrals and synagogues and churches. She has dressed herself in royal robes which she wove by her own hands. The linen I give is righteousness which has been purchased by My blood. She has accrued great riches with bank accounts and investments and have men bound to her by these things. She has purchased these things by the blood of martyrs.”

    “Everywhere you look, you can see the harlot. She is everywhere in men’s hearts. Men go after her, and she loves it so. She is not married, but has taken unto herself many lovers. She is defiled and those who sleep with her are defiled.”

    “Mercy and peace are with those who have eyes to see and ears to hear when the trumpets sound and the call goes forth, ‘Come out of her, My people, come out!’

    “The road to Zion is paved with humility.”

    “Lord,” I cried, “it’s so hard to say. Why is it so hard for me to say it plainly? Why is it so hard for you to say it plainly?”

    He answered, “Because the deception is so great.”

    “Christianity is a religion, and religious men are caught in its web. Who can hear Me,” said the Lord, “or who can hear My prophets when it is said of Christianity that it, as a religious system, is a false religion? Who can understand when I declare that all religion is false? The greatest deception of all is for men to come to it in My name, thinking they have come to Me. I am not an “it.” I am not a religion. I am the living and true God. I require that men come unto Me and renounce all religion, but who can hear?”

    And consider these words from the Lord-

    The Lord then said, “I Am the door by which all men may enter, for I made the way available for all men. I am willing to let all pass through who wish to, but few choose to.” “Most go around this gate (Surrender) and try to find another way to enter in to My House. But they never deal with the root issues, the brambles, and are not truly surrendered to Me, and haven’t given me their will, so I am not truly Lord.” “I take each child who comes to Me, and bring each of them through the gates to My House, one at a time. Each holds a Truth, and a key for their lives. Each brings them closer to Me and brings them a deeper knowledge of Me, but none will bring them closer or more intimate with Me, than this one. This is the most resisted and the most feared.” “If you do not fully surrender to Me, and become one with Me, and take on My Likeness and My Life, then I do not truly know you. Unless you are fully changed, you will remain a stranger, and be cast into outer darkness at My Coming.”

    “Men think they can camp on My Truths, and partake of a few things here and there, and make it their platform and defense, but they fail to apply Me, the Living Word, the whole Council of God, to their lives, and they are not fully changed. They only become more entangled with their works and become further alienated from Me.” “But you must fully embrace all of Me, and utterly cast yourself upon Me, and take Me fully as your Lord, and as your God. I alone will change you, as you embrace Me. I alone, can make you into My Image, and not of yourself. Do not take one Truth, and discard another, but fully embrace all of My Word, and let it do it’s work within you. Do not elevate one Truth above another, and build upon them, but eat them, and let them abide in you.” “My Word is to be eaten, and not built upon, and used for men’s purposes. It is to be embraced. It is to be partaken of, and the fruit of it will be walked out. It is the Life that is in My Word, when properly partaken of, that will be reflected outwardly. That is what will be seen. The Surrendered Life is a visible life that is seen by all. It is hated by many.” “When I am fully reflected, then true change has come.”

    Reply

  29. Posted by finney on October 6, 2007 at 4:14 pm

    I didn’t get too far into this site before I noticed a question regarding what’s known as ‘the Millennial Reign’; specifically, why? Why have a millenium of peace on earth with Christ Himself ruling directly and then turn it over to the Father at the end of that time? Why not just turn it over right off the bat?
    The purpose of 1,000 years of Godly rule without the curse of sin (sin will still be present, the curse from the garden will be lifted) is to show that even under a perfect environment, even with the absence of the curse, man is in need of a Savior. There’ll be all sorts of children born during this period of time who never knew a time when lions killed zebras and thorns grew on plants, when fear born of guilt was the order of the day. Even so, man in his natural state, no matter the circumstances, is a fallen creature in need of the Lord Jesus Christ to redeem him. This period will prove that.

    Reply

  30. Posted by JohnO on October 7, 2007 at 6:56 pm

    Finney,

    Nice to see a new face around here. Thank you for your thoughts. That would seem to square up with Revelation and the fact that the multitude still revolts against God even during that period.

    Reply

  31. Posted by finney on October 8, 2007 at 11:14 pm

    Thanks and yeah, seems likely.

    Reply

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